Raymond and Anna Marie McIntyre: The Full Interview

ANNA MARIA: Well, if you had relatives, they did help one another. I happened to come from a family where my parents came from Austria and I had no relatives or grandparents. So we really were on our own. And I think it did make it a little more difficult for my mother and, at the time, I think we did get help through church. Father helped when my dad was completely out of work in different times. But I do believe not having relatives was really hard for us.

RAYMOND: And I can say that we were fortunate. My mother was divorced and we had three, myself and two girls, two sisters. And if it weren't for my grandparents, we would have really, I don't know what would have happened to us because my mother was on relief. It was called at that time, not welfare. But they really, my grandparents really helped us to a great degree. They put a roof over our head and we had the basics.

RAYMOND: Well I do remember, I was quite, even as a young man, I was, I liked to watch or listen to the fights. We had a radio. And Friday nights was our big night to listen to the fights. And I do remember Joe Lewis and Billy Conn and I do even remember when Jimmy Braddock, the Irishman, there was a movie out about him now I believe or it was out, and--

HOST: Cinderella Man.

RAYMOND: Right, the Cinderella Man.

HOST: Did you listen to it?

RAYMOND: And it was a great-- I don't know if anybody remember the Knothole Gang at the ballpark. I was fortunate enough through grade school to get a Knothole Gang ticket. And after school, we used to rush over to a Sportsman's Park to watch the ballgame. And a little antidote to that was when we'd go in, somebody wouldn't have their ticket or wouldn't-- so we'd stand over the top and throw it over the railing to pick it up and they'd come in.

HOST: [LAUGHS] But what was, if you had to pay for a ticket to the ball game, what would it have cost?

RAYMOND: Oh gosh, I don't think it even reached a dollar.

HOST: Less than a dollar.

RAYMOND: Yeah. I mean, if you just want less, maybe you wanted the box seats, you might have had to pay a little more. But well, prices, admission then was very reasonable.

ANNA MARIA: We walked everywhere or you got on the streetcar. If you maybe happened to go somewhere really unusual, like when I had to get a tooth pulled downtown at the federal building, my mother had to take me on the streetcar. Other than that, you walked everywhere.

HOST: Your families did not have cars?

ANNA MARIA: No.

RAYMOND: Oh God, no. We only knew one person, excuse me, we only knew one person that had a car. I remember we lived within a five-mile area, basically our whole young life. I mean, we never like going downtown, that was rare, very rare. And as far as transportation, it was the street car, they called them trolleys. And then later, the buses came in. But our mode of transportation was walking, basically. But when we did go somewhere, it was on-- when I first started working at, I guess I was 16, 17, I took the streetcar trolley downtown.

RAYMOND: My first job was in optical company over here on Seventh and Pine, the Alvin Optical Company, and I was hired as an errand boy. And my first salary was $8 a week--

HOST: $8 a week?

RAYMOND: for delivering, yeah, for delivering the prescriptions to the glass doctors in downtown area.

HOST: And did you have to take that home as part of support for your family?

RAYMOND: Oh yeah. Always gave mom a few. And we could buy streetcar pass for 50 cents, a bus or streetcar pass and that would give you, rides you seven days a week any time, day or night.

HOST: 50 cents for a whole week?

RAYMOND: 50 cents for a week, yeah. And again, we used to toss it out the window occasionally. [CHUCKLES]

HOST: Anna, Ray mentioned that he had to leave high school early to support. What about your education? What did you do?

ANNA MARIA: That would be the early 40s and my father was very old at that time. My brother had gone in the service and my older sister had gotten married and I had a couple of younger sisters. And believe it or not, through the church, I got a job at a printing company. I was only 15 years old. They made me 16 years old. And I went to work to help support my family. And within a year, I even brought my mother to work with me. And my two younger sisters were in school. And believe me, even though then I was 15 and 1/2, up to 16, I was giving them all my money and my brother was sending some money home from the service.

HOST: How much money were you making back then?

ANNA MARIA: I made 30 cents an hour when I started.

HOST: 30 cents an hour?

ANNA MARIA: 30 cents an hour. I brought home like $12 a week I think.

HOST: Of course, you earned a heck of a lot more than Ray did. You got him beat 12-8 sounds like.

ANNA MARIA: But can I go back to 1934? I want to tell you, the mayor here in St. Louis, his name was Bernard Dickman and that was like the middle of the Depression, and he had a great Christmas party at the Kiel Auditorium for everyone and we lived next door to the committee woman's mother and she knew how tough things were. My mother was expecting a baby any day and my father had to stay there with her. And my older brother who was only 12 took my sister and I to this Christmas party at the Kiel Auditorium and we had a wonderful time. I still have the gift I received.

HOST: Wow, what was it?

ANNA MARIA: And Ann Brady was the committeewoman and it was a little set, believe it or not, of living room furniture-- a couch, a piano, and four little chairs.

ANNA MARIA: And then a couple months later, the beginning of 1935 in the spring of the year, my younger sister was only about five years old when the Breneman bank closed, we were literally put out on the street. My mother and dad lost their little home. They came in and said, you know--

HOST: They put hold on your parents' house?

ANNA MARIA: And everything was put out on it. I can remember it so vividly.

HOST: What did you do?

ANNA MARIA: Well, about a block away, there was movers, there was Eisenhart Moving up the street on Farragut. My mother went up there and asked him to please help us. And fortunately, over across the street, there was a vacancy and we moved into that house. We were really lucky that he was there. But that really was a hard time. Food in Kri packing company, they gave free baloney and hot dogs on Thursday if you went and stood in line. And we used to go over there. And also my mother always had a little garden in the summertime and what you say like parsley, but they called it soup greens then, she would pick a nice bunch of this and I would take that to Kroger's and the butcher gave me a soup bone for that. And, you know, she cooked whatever she could add to that and made a pot of soup. I recall neighbors would send me to the store. And believe it or not, I brought home a pound of chicken feet for 10 cents that they had ordered they had off that were they made their soup with.

HOST: Chicken feet--

ANNA MARIA: Chicken feet-

HOST: For the stock.

ANNA MARIA: For the stock. Yes.

RAYMOND: And things talking about food like that, our family too, there was a little store a few blocks away that we dealt with. There was no supermarkets or anything. But we ran a tab, you know, so I would go up there, they would put it on a tab, and then at the end of the month when your parent had something to take up, a quarter or 50 cents or something and then you could continue on. But there was a couple of times when it wasn't there and they turned you down for a loaf of bread say or for milk or whatever your mother sent you for.

HOST: When you said put it on the tab, they said we can't stand anymore credit to you?

RAYMOND: Right, right, till you bring a little something in. But I mean, everybody. It was not just us. At that time, they ran a tab on many families.

ANNA MARIA: And when things got really bad in the winter and your dad was out looking for work, my brother had this little wagon. It wasn't a little wagon, it was a nice sized wagon. He went to the railroad yards and he wasn't the only boy there. They'd swept out the coal cars and he brought they had coal home and that's what we used for heating. And he'd pick up all kinds of different things there and you were only too glad to get whatever, you know, I babysat 25 cents a night when I was 10 years old.

HOST: For the whole night. Yeah.

ANNA MARIA: Yes. And right in the neighborhood if anybody-- they found out people that had children that were reliable because the store actually gave my name. I had two customers that I babysat regularly for and every little--

HOST: So everybody had to contribute.

ANNA MARIA: And your clothes were usually made from hand-me-downs. But you know though, people were close, even neighbors I think. Sunday afternoons, everybody sat out in their yard. If they had relatives, you joined them and sat and talked. But people were friendly and did try to help one another if there was any way that they could.

HOST: Ray, I understand there was a time when you injured your foot. Sure, whether your parents could afford the medical care. Talk about that?

RAYMOND: Oh, right, I cut it somewhere. And at that time, you mostly run around the summer with nothing but bare feet. You didn't even have tennis shoes. And I cut it and I just neglected it, let it go until finally it just became so painful and I took it to my, at that time, at my mother and my stepfather. My mother happened to be married by that time or remarried. And he literally carried me on his back up about, oh, about a good half mile or more to the doctor up on Grand Avenue. And he lanced it and wrapped it up and I had to take care of it. But I mean, you just kind of let things go if you had a toothache and you waited till you couldn't stand up no more or before you even told your parents about it.

RAYMOND: In 1933, people were having a hard time finding work, my mom and my stepfather at the time. And finally, when Roosevelt came in, they created what they call the WPA, Workmans--

HOST: Works Progress Administration.

RAYMOND: Right. And that really kind of saved it for our family. From then on, my dad had a job, it was $15 a week. But I mean, that was good at that time. And my mother, she was a shoe worker and she rarely worked because in them days when there was any openings, they gave it to the men. And at that time, when some of this work started opening up, she even got to work a little more and we were able to move from my grandparents' house to get our own flat. We moved into a flat. And we were a family then.

HOST: So that was real progress for you.

RAYMOND: Yes, that it was really nice. And we moved ourselves, our furniture my mom did have. I never will forget my dad. And I moved it on my little red wagon. We set it right on top. I would hold it on and he would pull it. But only about two or three blocks away. But that was something that I remember too.

RAYMOND: Well, with our family, Ann and I both, we knew our children should have an education, you know, that we didn't have. And if you just looked at anything into the future, you could tell that an education was a must. So we really did make sure that the children, even though when we first married things, were still a little, you know. But that's what I felt that they really needed to get it and we wanted to make sure that they had as all families do, a little more than what you had.

HOST: Yeah, Yeah. How about you, Anna? What do you think about that?

ANNA MARIA: Well, I thought in having the children help out and help with the family would bring them character because I knew their father, we did with education. But he had to work and worked a lot of overtime and the children got grass cutting jobs and worked in the neighborhood. But I always had them give a part of this towards the family and I do believe it really made them where they really think of family, where today children are given so much and they never think of giving anything back to the family.

RAYMOND: We are so proud of our-- we have six children, 20 something grandchildren, 13, 14 great grandchildren. That what we've done, and I was pretty harsh on them at times, they have made us all so proud. They all have wonderful families and we are just very proud of our family.